My logic is simple: why stop…

[Theseus]

I am trying to translate into Greek a statement in English made very recently by the famous tennis player, Novak Djokavic about why he continues playing tennis at the age of thirty eight. He said:” "So my logic is, why not keep going as long as I have that fire, flair and quality, and the motivation, to do so?"
My attempt, bearing in mind that such efforts are a trap for the unwary, is:-

Η λογική μου είναι απλή: γιατί να σταματήσω όσο έχω ακόμη τη φλόγα, τη φινέτσα, την αρίστευση και την εμψύχωση;
Colleagues, please feel free to alter it and make it good Greek. A Greek newspaper or news website translates it thus:-

«Γιατί να αποσυρθώ όταν η φλόγα του πάθους καίει ακόμα μέσα μου;»
Για τον Τζόκοβιτς, ο λόγος για να συνεχίσει είναι απλός: γιατί να αποσυρθεί όταν εξακολουθεί να έχει τη φινέτσα, την ποιότητα και ιδιαίτερα τον συναρπαστικό ενθουσιασμό του να μπαίνει στο γήπεδο μπροστά στους ενθουσιώδεις οπαδούς του;

 

[m_a_a_]

My somewhat slipshod attempt (between calls ):

Το σκεπτικό μου είναι: γιατί να μη συνεχίσω [no need to go with αποσυρθώ=retire] από τη στιγμή που έχω ακόμα τη φλόγα […*], την ποιότητα και το κίνητρο;

Flair is a tricky one. I know more or less exactly [sic] how it’s used in sports, and although there is some overlapping with your admittedly really good suggestion φινέτσα, it doesn’t really cut the deal, though I cannot think of any preferable alternative at the moment… On the other hand, φλόγα might actually cover both flame and flair… or maybe not…

 

[Theseus]

Thanks, m_a_a for drafting this in between calls! You use ποιότητα as in the press article and κίνητρο which he is more likely to say in a Greek context. I used both φλόγα and φινέτσα as a deliberate alliteration for ‘fire’ and ‘flair’ to match his ‘fire and flair’.

 

[cougr]

As I was reading the OP just a moment ago, my immediate instinct for flair was ταλέντο. My immediate translation for the rest of the statement was exactly the same as m_a_a's.

 

[Theseus]

Thanks, cougr. All grist to the mill!

 

[m_a_a_]

my immediate instinct for flair was ταλέντο

Yeah, dictionaries agree with you, cougr, but that's not exactly how the word is used in sports, at least not in football.
There are loads of players with talent, but merely a handful of them (proportionately speaking) have flair.
A "flair player" does have talent, but not necessarily overwhelming. The main intrinsic connotation is unpredictability, combined with (possibly inconsistent) finesse, and a fair share of audacity...

Let it play from 6:18 to 7:09

Yet neither have I found any satisfactory equivalents in Greek, nor do I I have any way of knowing whether Novak actually used the word in this sense...

 

[Theseus]

That’s partly why I used φινέτσα. The word ταλέντο was is one of the newspaper articles. It seems a trifle arrogant to say ‘I have flair’ but he does have oodles of it but modesty usually prohibits boasting about oneself. The Greek tragedians were all too familiar with ὕβρις.

 

[cougr]

Yep. I wasn't suggesting that ταλέντο was its precise counterpart. Given the vast array of its connotations and nuances I don't think there's a direct equivalent in Greek.

Edit: I hadn't seen the above post by Theseus. It had been posted as I was writing.

 

[m_a_a_]

έχω ακόμα τη φλόγα, την «τρέλα», την ποιότητα και το κίνητρο να συνεχίσω might be worth considering...


And on that note, I'm wishing you a good night (or day). Cheers!

 

[pontios]

Φαντασία, ίσως, για το flair?

Έχω ακόμα τη φλόγα, τη φαντασία στο παιχνίδι μου, την ποιότητα και το κίνητρο να συνεχίσω???

 

[cougr]

And on that note, I'm wishing you a good night (or day). Cheers!

Καληνύχτα!

 

[cougr]

A "flair player" does have talent, but not necessarily overwhelming. The main intrinsic connotation is unpredictability, combined with (possibly inconsistent) finesse, and a fair share of audacity.

All these and more, not least of what pontios was possibly alluding to ie. creativity and imaginative flair - though it would be a contradiction to say that Djokovic's talent wasn't overwhelming. But if I had to distill the essence of what I think "flair" meant in relation to Djokovic it would be the "wow" factor he brings to the game in terms of his playing skills and athleticism. For Instance, his ability to create winning shots out of nothing and pulling off the unexpected in magical fashion - like when he reaches an unreachable ball by lunging at it in a near full splits position and turning it into a spectacular winner. The type of shot that has fans gasping and wondering: how the f_ _ _ did he do that? In Greek, it would perhaps be absurd that someone would refer to themselves as having "τρελό ταλέντο" but I think that there might be considerable overlap between this and flair.

 

[m_a_a_]

Good morning afternoon.

Your description of what flair might mean in relation to Djokovic is probably spot-on, cougr, and thank you for providing it.

And, needless to say, I did not mean to imply that his talent is anything short of overwhelming.

I still have my objections, though, as to whether ταλέντο (with or without a preceding adjective) would be the preferable rendition in Greek (say, in a fictional sports lexicon):

Ταλέντο is an asset, if not innate (that part is disputable), then at least developed at an early stage in life; which pretty much explains why you'll chiefly (not exclusively) hear it in reference to youngsters.

Flair, on the other hand, seems to stem (at least partly) from character: it's not just an asset; it's an attitude towards the game itself dictating how the asset is put to use. Like, ευρηματικότητα with a touch of «τρέλα»… Maybe… And yes, it's largely about the "wow factor", as you succinctly put it. In fact, perhaps "flair" is a player attribute only in the context of the "staged" (and televised) sports event (a somewhat arbitrary thought - just throwing it out there...)

But then there is the sport itself, and tennis is a one-man show, so the semantic borders between such attributes are easily blurred, I think…

There are loads of players with talent, but merely a handful of them (proportionately speaking) have flair.

This is much more evident in football: I don't think any commentator has ever referred to a defender as a "flair player". Nonetheless, there's a fair share of defenders who are up there in the top-10 or what-have-you of all-time best footballers, so their talent is universally indisputable.

Anyway, I don't wanna rant (I just think it's an interesting chat); I believe you get my point.

And, to add a few new suggestions:

• Around the same time that pontios posted his tasty suggestion φαντασία, I was thinking it would be nice if φαντεζί had given us a noun, but that's just wishful thinking…
• A "flair player" is often referred to as μάγος, at least in football punditry, but μαγεία does not work for describing the attribute.
• Another compromise worth considering that I came to think of is μαεστρία, perhaps partly synonymous to Theseus's φινέτσα, but more common in sports contexts, and less looks-centered.
• That, in turn, made me think of δεξιοτεχνία, but if we want to elevate it even further, we might go for αριστοτεχνία.

I don't know… just thinking out loud, basically…

 

[Theseus]

I never thought that my question would spark off so much scholarly discussion! For which I am deeply indebted. It has helped me to see into the minds of people who are native Greek speakers and to see how they tackle what to a learner has to wholly depend on the vagaries of a dictionary. I an very gtateful for all your help.