για σπαθί θα μας τα πάρεις

davidr

New member
Hi Everyone,

This line is from an old rembetiko song (1934) called Το φλιτζάνι του Γιάννη, and it's beyond me. I hate to keep bothering you with this stuff, but I love the music, and these lines drive me crazy when I don't understand them. (I'm actually compiling a glossary of words and lines like this that are incomprehensible to us non-native speakers.) I'll include the line before it and a bit after it for context. Thanks for any help. BTW, thanks especially to Nickel for all his selfless help to me over the years! I'm truly grateful and indebted. :eek:

Με αυτά που μας σκαρώνεις από μας δεν τη γλιτώνεις
για σπαθί θα μας τα πάρεις ή αλλιώς θα μας ρεφάρεις
 

Alexandra

Super Moderator
Staff member
Hello, David,

The first hint is that σπαθί here should mean club as in cards.
Σπαθιά - clubs
Κούπες - hearts
Μπαστούνια - spades
Καρά (καρό) - diamonds

Ρεφάρω means break even, recover my losses.

Shouldn't the second line be "με σπαθί θα μας τα πάρεις", though? I haven't heard about this song before.

Edit:
I was wrong about the lyric, it really says"για σπαθί", here is the whole song:
Μας την έσκασες, βρε Γιάννη,
με το άσπρο το φλιτζάνι,
τα γεμάτα εκουνούσες,
τις εξάρες μας κολλούσες.

Γιάννη, άλλαξε τα ζάρια,
να μην έχομε ζαράρια
και σε πήραμε χαμπάρι,
που μας άλλαξες το ζάρι.

Πρόσεξε να μη σε πιάσω,
γιατί αμέσως θα τα σπάσω,
για κορόιδα, ρε μας παίρνεις
κι ολοένα μας τη φέρνεις.

Με αυτά που μας σκαρώνεις,
από μας δεν τη γλιτώνεις,
για σπαθί θα μας τα πάρεις
ή αλλιώς θα μας ρεφάρεις.
So, the expression "για σπαθί" here might mean "honestly". Something like, "You should play and win honestly, otherwise you will reimburse us for all the money we lost."


 
Last edited:

drsiebenmal

HandyMod
Staff member
Hi David,

No bother at all... :)

για is used here informally, meaning either. From ΛΚΝ:

για{5} [já] σύνδ. διαχ. : (προφ., οικ., λαϊκότρ.) ή: Θα έρθεις τώρα ~ ύστερα; Θέλεις μήλο ~ αχλάδι; Εμπρός, στη μάχη! και ~ ζούμε ~ πεθαίνουμε = ή θα ζήσουμε ή θα πεθάνουμε.
[τουρκ. ya (από τα περσ.), ya… ya…]

σπαθί means here fair and square, so the meaning of ...για σπαθί θα μας τα πάρεις... is ...you either take them from us fair and square or...
 
I second the dear DrSiebenmal. Γιά means "either" and σπαθί means fairly, also with a connotation of με την αξία σου, "deservedly".
 

Palavra

Mod Almighty
Staff member
So, this Yiannis changed the dice in order to win all the time, and the other guys are on to him, right?

Two more questions from me, now: how would we say γεμάτα ζάρια in English? I suppose it means dice that have been tampered with in order to give sixes all the time, but is there a slang word for it?
And question number two: is there a youtube video of the song, maybe? :D

And David, please keep asking these questions, some of us find them very interesting!
 

nickel

Administrator
Staff member
Hi, David — and thanks and you are always very welcome and, if a week goes by without one of your questions, we feel a void in our routine, :) and you should actually start inventing questions, especially as rebetika songs have so many words we are not familiar with.

Take ζαράρια, for example. First time I come across it. It means trouble of some sort. It must be from Turkish zarar 'damage, harm, injury, detriment'.

Now note this about "για σπαθί" (which I would have written like sarant, "γιά σπαθί"). If "για" meant "for", you would read this with the stress on the final "ι". Now because "για" means "or, either" (the latter in this case), you have a double stress: you also stress "γιά" [já spathí]. So the metre is the same as in "ή αλλιώς" etc.
 

davidr

New member
Wow! All of you are wonderful! Thanks to each and everyone. This is such great information and clears it all up for me. I didn't know that meaning/usage of για so you can see how baffling this line was for me. It's so exciting to learn something new!

And yes, "loaded dice" or "the dice are loaded" is what we say in English.

And thanks, Nickel, for reassuring me that I'm not overdoing it with all my rembetika questions because I don't want to be a pest. But I certainly have plenty more questions about words and phrases!

Again a big thank-you to everyone!
 

daeman

Administrator
Staff member
Hi, David.
Please don't hesitate; it's obvious many of us enjoy such queries! :)

Here's the song I dug up on youtube:

Το φλιτζάνι του Γιάννη - Ρίτα Αμπατζή (Μουσική & στίχοι: Μανώλης Χρυσαφάκης):​
and in this forum you'll find a French translation of this song (I can't judge if it's good or not, since I don't speak French), along with translations of many other rembetika.

Quoting from relevant posts there:
Έτος σύνθεσης: 1934
Καμηλιέρικο ζεϊμπέκικο σε τρόπο "κιουρντί" Zeibekiko kamilieriko dans le mode "Kiourdi"
Ηχογράφηση του 1934
Παίζουν κιθάρα, βιολί και μαντόλα

Il y a une explication que j'ai essayé de traduire:
Στο μπαρμπούτι, ρίχνουν τα ζάρια με φλιτζάνι ή με κάποιο μικρό κουτί. Αυτό γίνεται για ν' αποφεύγουν το "κόλλημα" των ζαριών. Τα "γεμάτα" είναι τα ζάρια που εσωτερικά, στη μια τους πλευρά, έχουν υδράργυρο και είναι έτσι φτιαγμένα ώστε εκείνος που τα ρίχνει να φέρνει εξάρες. "Ζαράρια" είναι οι φασαρίες. "Για σπαθί θα μας τα πάρεις" εννοεί "θα τα πάρεις με την αξία σου", και "θα μας ρεφάρεις" σημαίνει "θα επιστρέψεις πίσω τα χαμένα".

(*) Le barbouti est un très vieux jeu de deux dés, toujours interdit (alors que le "421" français et le "craps" américain ne le sont pas). L'idée est simple: un certain nombre de combinaisons gagne et le même nombre d'autres combinaisons perd; toute autre combinaison hormis ces deux principales permet de répéter le jeu et/ou renouveler les paris. Le gagnant continue à lancer les dés; le perdant perd son tour et son ... fric. Les spectateurs peuvent aussi parier "sur la main" du joueur.
Gagnants: 6-6 / 6-5 / 5-5 / 3-3
Perdants: 1-1 / 1-2 / 2-2 / 4-4
 
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